34 Comments
Feb 3Liked by Jillian Page, Fred

Some interesting points, Fred, and yes- I do live in a place where nudity is tolerated or even embraced far more than in America. But while I'm one of those who often suggest that many naturists' fear of causing offence is a perceived fear rather than one that is borne out of actual experience, I'm also mindful of the fact that some have careers and other factors to consider. I suspect, however, that they would be valid concerns to a much greater proportion of naturists in America than to those here in New Zealand.

Another point you raised is that young nudists might be far more interested in naked parties, trips to a nude beach or nude hiking than any landed club. I would go even further than that by saying that young people are not even interested in the labels "naturist" or "nudist". A week ago I returned from six days at Kiwiburn - New Zealand's regional Burning Man festival. On the Saturday night over 1,000 people ran and danced naked around the dying embers of the effigy - mostly young folks who never consider themselves as naturists. Skinny-dipping in New Zealand has always been acceptable at beaches and rivers and there would be few folks here who have never done that.

So, yes, I agree that landed clubs will likely fade away over time. New Zealand is a Common Law country, and it is becoming very rare now for anyone to be arrested for simply being naked in an appropriate public place, due to ongoing court precedents being set. There is becoming less need for landed clubs to exist - especially for younger folks.

For these reasons I'm less inclined these days to promote naturism as a philosophy or even to wear the label. Rather, I'm more than happy to advocate for nudity to become more and more acceptable in society as just another dress code for appropriate activities. You don't need a label for that, any more than you need a label for wearing a T-shirt.

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Feb 4·edited Feb 4Liked by Jillian Page, Fred

Over the years I’ve been hot and cold over the naturism/nudism movement but have never lost my appetite for nude recreation.

As I’ve commented elsewhere, the NN narrative hasn’t really changed over the last 15++ years. Nor has it seemed to have visibly moved the needle in terms of acceptance and adoption.

I reckon what the NN crowd probably don’t get is a lot people don’t mind nudity, but don’t, nor want to identify as a NN for all sorts of reasons.

I myself shy away from that tag more often than not because it always felt like a badly tailored wrap that never really fit me right.

Maybe what younger people can relate to far more readily is the concept of body liberation. This concept is something they can probably shape and own the way they want to own it. You only need look at gender identity to see how quickly a grass roots concept can catch on and rapidly become mainstream. To the point corporations feel obligated to recognise and support it.

Part of the problem is something Fred has eluded to. You look at the NN demographic and it’s dominated by a lot of older people. Quite often grumbling about how marginalised NN is.

Contrast that to what’s happening in other circles and the philosophies and ideas might not suit that well with the NN crowd, but arguably, has a much greater ground swell that can relate and join in on terms they’re comfortable with.

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Feb 3Liked by Jillian Page, Fred

Very well-written. It's true that we'll always be outliers in general society and sad to see so many clubs going going textile. To survive, the clubs that are left might incorporate like Glen Eden did. I forget which others have done the same, if there were any others.. All we can do is watch out for each other and keep networking, holding events at homes where people are able to host- things like that. I too hope younger people become interested and find out what a beautiful lifestyle Nudism/Naturism is.

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Feb 3Liked by Jillian Page, Fred

What year did you graduate from CSUN? Alumnus 1964.

Article brought good info. My resort home I wish would make a planned push for 20-40 y/o membership.

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Feb 3Liked by Jillian Page, Fred

Well said

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Feb 3Liked by Jillian Page, Fred

Thanks for the great article!

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Feb 5Liked by Jillian Page, Fred

Very interesting article. What you have said is really compelling to think. As you have said rightly, travel clubs & home nudism can be a reality of the future. Is there any alternative? This is the thought which occupies mind after going through the article.

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Continuation...

"If a blog readership is already nudist or nudist-friendly, then it is impossible to promote nudism there."

Obviously, there are no minds to change among naturist blog readers as far as naturism itself is concerned. Don't bother carrying coals to Newcastle. But there's one BIG exception - persuading readers to be open about naturism and promote it to open-minded friends and relatives.

What we write can suggest and encourage new ways to enjoy naturism. Even more important than that is encouraging home naturists to come out of their caves, because social nudity is more enjoyable the more widely it is understood and participated in by others. I mean, how many naturists will you meet hiking alone in the desert? "The cave's (or trail's) a fine and private place, but none, I think, do there embrace" - to slightly misquote Andrew Marvell.

Regarding encountering others while hiking naked, "Nobody complains, and I get positive comments from textiles." Exactly. Naturists shouldn't be so afraid of what others might think of them. Depending on individual circumstances, negative reactions are probably much less likely than generally feared. Sure, there are still plenty of people who also hate LGBTQ+ people. Most of them do so for "religious" reasons, but hatred isn't supposed to be a religious virtue. "Noli illegitimi carborundum" should be taken to heart by naturists.

"I think landed clubs are only going to become less common. The cost of real estate prevents new ones from forming."

The cost of real estate isn't the real problem. In fact, land is more expensive on average in England than in the U.S., because the average population density is much higher in England. Yet naturism is much more popular in England than in the U.S. That's due, first, to the effectiveness of the British Naturism organization at promoting naturism as compared to U.S. organizations. And, second, the higher population density in England makes visiting naturist places much easier and cheaper. Real estate costs have little, if anything, to do with the difference.

The U.S. has far more open space - hence cheaper land - but that's a problem, since people on average have to travel much farther to visit naturist clubs and resorts. Yet if most naturists were in "urban centers", then the expensiveness of land really is a problem for landed clubs.

The real problem, however, is TOO FEW naturists. Current naturists can't do anything about the cost of real estate. But they certainly can - if they choose to - do much more to promote naturism.

"Travel clubs and at-home nudism are the future."

Home naturism overly limits the social aspect. And most travel clubs seem to be doing as poorly these days as the landed ones, as far as I can tell. The one I belong to is mostly old people - who won't be around much longer. And it has only half a dozen events per year, at most. So why would a young person join or see value in starting one - unless the number of younger naturists began increasing at a good rate? Besides, where is a "travel club" going to travel? Where can they go in "urban centers" - except for the homes of other naturists, who they'll have difficulty finding?

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Feb 4·edited Feb 4Liked by Fred

I agree with Fred on some points, but not all. Promoting naturism is very important. It's not time wasted. The more open-minded people learn about naturism the better for all of us. Promoting naturism provides an opportunity to meet additional like-minded friends. And it remains true that there's strength in numbers.

"In the past, nudist parents often did not raise nudist — or even nude-tolerant — children. That’s still evident today."

I think it's just the opposite. From the naturist history I've read, U.S. families went together to naturist places MUCH more often than today. And for sure, fathers and male children had little problem being naked at YMCA swimming pools and the like. (But I don't know whether that was similar on the female side.) Now most adult males seem fearful even about being naked with their peers. I can't disagree that the U.S. has some pretty bad hang-ups these days. It's a really messed-up country. "Land of the free" - but the home of the easily terrified.

"The people one needs to promote nudism to aren't nudists."

Well, yeah. What needs to be promoted to naturists is making an effort to help non-naturists get the message.

"I meet many nudists who keep their nudism a secret from their kids, never mind including them in the fun. Or conveniently wait until the kids have left home to get involved."

That may be too often true, but it certainly leaves kids with unhealthy ideas about nudity. Kids should learn about human bodies of both sexes before their teen years. (Many do anyhow, but not in the best way.) Naturist parents have a real advantage in this respect. Other countries, especially in Europe, are more sensible about this. U.S. Naturists should follow that example. Of course, if one's spouse is opposed to naturism, then there is a very serious problem.

A primary tenet of naturism is that a body's appearance isn't an important matter, at least as long as it's in good health. When I was young, kids saw naked bodies of the same sex regularly. It's NOT healthy that doesn't seem to happen now. For some unclear reason, nudity has become more controversial in the U.S. now than in the past. U.S. society in many ways has become very sick in recent years. The ideas of tolerance and diversity are faring rather poorly. But perhaps that's just tribalism and human nature.

"For a long time, young people really weren't welcomed in nudism because resorts were (and some still are) dominated by people hostile to "youth" culture, i.e. free love and smoking dope, loud parties and death metal music, and all that."

Is that really "youth culture" today? Seems more true of the 1970-80 period. Young people were much more prevalent at naturist places back then - and were also naked on college campuses (personal observation) and clothing-optional beaches. Didn't seem to make them unwelcome at resorts. And for that matter, there's still a large cohort of adults of all ages who indulge in the "party culture".

"Consider the population/age distribution of a club. If almost all of the people are middle-aged or older, you won’t attract a lot of young people."

Absolutely true. And very sad. But, you know, with low-paying jobs, high rents, and large college debt loads (for some), too many young people these days can afford only basic necessities, if that much. Especially once they start having their own kids. Middle age or older folks tend to have free time, plenty of savings, and they own most of the housing. Too few young people can afford visits to naturist resorts or time spent in non-landed club activities. And if they can afford it, there aren't many naturists their own age.

"And there are few attempts at public persuasion."

Very true. But, um, doesn't that mean individual naturists themselves are at fault?

"People who promote "the only enemy is your own fear" line of thinking don't get what it is like to live in a place where being a social nudist can cost you your job, get your kids ridiculed, and put you at risk of getting a visit from the local children's welfare investigators."

Yes, that is the excuse most naturists seem to use for staying in the closet. But where's the data behind it? Are there any statistics at all for how many people lost a job for being "out" as a naturist? Or suffer from the ridicule of others? There might be a concern for teachers and others who work with children. But factory workers? People in skilled technical jobs? Staff at retail stores? Independent people who're plumbers, electricians, etc.?

And how is it that Florida - one of the most right-wing states in the nation - has the largest number of naturist clubs and resorts - as well as an active young naturist group? It's also the home base of AANR. Texas - equally as far right - also has lots of clubs and resorts. And, incidentally, Sunsport Gardens in Loxahatchee, FL especially welcomes families.

"The best way to promote nudism is to be a good person who just happens to be a nudist and neither hide the fact nor be evangelical about it."

True - as far as it goes. But is it "evangelical" to be open with others about naturism and explain what's good about it? Is it a bad idea to invite others to at least give it a try?

"My first suggestion is to be somewhere that is at least moderately nude-tolerant. By concentrating in a few urban centers, gay people created enclaves where they were safer. Nudists need to do the same."

People shouldn't have to move hundreds or thousands of miles to find a "nude-tolerant" place. Look at Florida, for example. Concentrating in urban centers isn't all that great either. For one thing, they're more expensive. If young people have trouble making ends meet, urban centers aren't a great choice.

"The people one needs to promote nudism to aren't nudists. It is people NOT into nudism who might be curious about it."

Yeah, and also don't bother promoting religion to the Pope.

"the best possible place for organized outreach would be college campuses."

That may well be the best choice. Where else can some many young adults be found in one place? And probably the highest percentage of open-minded people, too. But figuring out how to reach college students is the tricky part. What specific ways can you suggest to do that? Is AANR about to send missionaries to campuses for that purpose?

"When I was a student at Cal State, Northridge, there was a nudist club on campus"

Hell, at Stanford in the 1970s there was a small lake right on campus behind one of the big dorms where sometimes half the students there were naked. Nudity wasn't a problem if one preferred it. And it was about 50-50 male/female. But the lake usually dries up in the spring now, and times have changed.

"Young nudists might be far more interested in naked parties, trips to a nude beach, or nude hiking than any landed club."

Probably true. But here's the thing: are people at naked parties interested in other forms of naturism - that don't also involve getting drunk or stoned? Nude beaches in the U.S. in general are mostly on the coasts - not convenient at all. Naked hiking and camping? Sure, but not so much in "urban centers". Naturism, at least in my opinion, is best as a social activity with others. And where is any better place to be certain of meeting other naturists besides landed and non-landed clubs?

Sure, being naked in one's own home is great. Maybe that's where 90% or more of people who enjoy nonsexual nudity spend all their naked time. But humans are social creatures and few live in the modern equivalent of caves. So what if most people at naturist clubs are older? If they have some younger friends or relatives who're naked at home or with a few friends on hiking or camping trips, the oldies might introduce you to them. What's the downside of talking with older naturists? Would they be less accepting of nudity than younger people?

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Feb 3Liked by Jillian Page, Fred

I was a member of Au Naturel for awhile. We used to meet up at Elysium quite a bit as I remember. I was also a member there, then Glen Eden.

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Feb 3Liked by Jillian Page, Fred

It's really hard to have children under 18 involved because of how that can be weaponized against you as a parent. Even with both parents involved, it can be weaponized, let alone a situation where one parent uses it against another in a divorce scenario.

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Dear Fred Heiser, I hope You take a moment to ST/ROLL around with Us during the 2024 #FREErangeSFnudistEXPERIENCE season in San Francisco USA ( Watch @NudeActivism youtube ). Our #NudistWelcomingMerchants are as sign that #SocialPublicNudism is not in decline, despite the handwringing of many Nudists; Economics drive change far more often than whining & ProTests. As @NakedDan attests, the historic annual #Bare2Breakers/#Bay2Breakers which attracts thousands of folks, including families/parents with young children, demonstrates that “Society” has few in any real credible concerns with the display of Human Anatomy or The Human Body in its essential form. The Legions of fans of inter/national WNBR events are also a marvelous tribute to Our INALIENABLE #ClothesFREE Liberty & Codified #1stAmendment Right to defy ancient & modern codes & rulers&rules armed&aimed at shaming deamonizing & criminalizing The Human Body & Our God-Blessed Species-Essential ProCreative, LifeGiving, LifeNurturing, LoveMaking & Joy Organs.

- mARTy

https://freemannoone.substack.com/p/living-his-beliefs?utm_campaign=email-post&r=3ixze9&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

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