I have been in the doldrums too. It often feels like I have said everything I want to say and writing a new post I'd just be rehashing something I said before. Hoping to go on a nude hike with a group in the mountains south of LA this weekend. It is looking more and more like I'll have to replace the knee if I'm going to keep hiking.
We are definitely a subculture. "a cultural group within a larger culture, often having beliefs or interests at variance with those of the larger culture." - Oxford Languages Dictionary
I’ll go with the sub-culture categorisation for ease of labelling, but I always feel labels are dodgy things to accept. It’s like “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” - we nudists/naturists/clothes free-folk have our self perceptions but who can tell how others see us (cue Robert Burns - “ would that God the gifty gi’ us, to see ourselves “ etc)? Accepting the sub-culture principle helps to lump us all together without worrying too much about our variations.
There's a subculture for almost any interest you can come up with. Not all subcultures are weird and wacky but they tend to get the attention. Hobbies can form subcultures if the interest is strong enough. Religious denominations form subcultures. Political parties form subcultures. If people organize to pursue an interest and have have events or conventions, they are pretty much defined as a subculture regardless of the topic.
Subculture is just a fancy name for a special interest group within the larger culture that preferentially associates with other people who share the interest. I suspect most people are members of one or more subcultures. Within a subculture you can often find sub-subcultures. Like Trekkies are a subsection of science fiction fandom.
A subculture that is adopted by a sufficiently large sector of society ceases to be a subculture and is then mainstreamed.
Subcultures are all part of the great Venn diagram of human life in my view, we're in some parts of it and where they overlap with other sectors of this diagram. I'm inclined to think that those looking in at the nudist/naturist/clothes-free grouping(s) will likely think of those of us in these sectors as being more of a sub-culture than us naked folk looking out at wider society. Or is wider society a sub-culture, albeit a huge one?
I don't know if we have a single dominant culture anymore. Part of the reason the west feels like it is falling apart.
The model for the American culture used to be the melting pot. Imagine a Venn diagram without clear boundaries, just amorphous blobs where a culture is concentrated at the center but gradually blends into the surrounding soup. If you are into physics you could call them probability clouds.
Over time it has evolved into a salad bowl. This is a chunk of lettuce and that's a sliced carrot and the surrounding culture is just a thin and variable coat of dressing. That's what social media algorithms encourage. As subcultures become distinct entities rather than gradually blending into each other, conflict rises.. We focus too much on differences and not enough on commonalities.
You see the same problem in countries where there are distinct nationalities/religions/ethinicities that stay separate rather than also adopting a common overarching identity. The result is usually civil war.
I think of myself as being European as much as I am British, or English. Certain voters here have made this more difficult to live out in practice though. Its embarrassing being British elsewhere in the world at times, 'European' cloaks many more together and we merge better IMO. Like those amorphous blobs you mention, with no distinct borders. Little Englanders, as it was them far more than other British people with a possible exception for some Northern Irish folk, took us backwards and now we're increasingly isolated.
Nudists have other interests - literature, films, walking, knitting, blogging.......I think that helps most of us blend into the general social salad fairly well when we have to be clothed. I see differences with some of the aforementioned Little Englanders, but we also have commonalities, some of them are nudists for a start. I'm not sure that we need be too concerned about the fractionalisation leading to conflict, provided we stay aware of those possibilities and can avoid masses following the leaders of division.
Funny! I've never regarded not wearing anything as a subculture! To be honest, every since early childhood I've never really carried the nudist / naturist label either. Being naked to my family is simply another optional dress code that makes sense when it's too hot or uncomfortable for clothes - or if I'm simply too lazy to put any clothes on!
People have a right to be naked or clothed. Nudism should be considered as a lifestyle choice. There are groups and communities where people of all ages who live the nudist lifestyle it shouldn't be a subculture.
I guess we are all placed in subcategories. But, as I see it, since we naked people don’t really fit anywhere, as in, we, as a group, are not legally recognized, we are outliers. We exist outside of society mores. To be sure, there are many more groups that don’t fit. That’s fine with me.
Not sure what defines a sub-culture, but I'm increasingly inclined to consider naturism a creed. Colins dictionary defines a creed as: A creed is a set of beliefs, principles, or opinions that strongly influence the way people live or work. That pretty well sums it up for me. Since people can't freely socialize in public nude we are definitely outliers, but naturism is a philosophy people in this forum believe in. Furthermore, a creed is constitutionally protected. Taking this position may force open the door to wider acceptance, and access to beaches and parks that are much more accessible than now.
"We simply take off our clothes more often than most, I suppose, and sometimes we socialize with others"
Maybe my attitude or viewpoint is slightly different. I would suggest- We simply don't wear clothes as often as most. To me it is not about removing clothes for comfort, but putting them on for the benefit of others.
Good point, drawing a distinction between subcultures defined by costumes and one by defined by nakedness. As an environmentalist, I see discomfort with nudity as alienation from the nearest patch of nature.
Naturism/Nudism Should Not Be Regarded As A Subculture In The The Twenty-First Century after all we are All Born Naked and indeed some of us also had the Good Fortune to be Raised As Such when the weather was appropriate. Coincidently I don't know about New Zealand Or Anywhere Else In The Southern Hemisphere but so far spring has been good in Australia.
I've always thought of it as more counter-culture than a subculture. But I guess, hey, however you want to label it. Or not label it. Just take your clothes off... it's all good :)
I have been in the doldrums too. It often feels like I have said everything I want to say and writing a new post I'd just be rehashing something I said before. Hoping to go on a nude hike with a group in the mountains south of LA this weekend. It is looking more and more like I'll have to replace the knee if I'm going to keep hiking.
We are definitely a subculture. "a cultural group within a larger culture, often having beliefs or interests at variance with those of the larger culture." - Oxford Languages Dictionary
I’ll go with the sub-culture categorisation for ease of labelling, but I always feel labels are dodgy things to accept. It’s like “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” - we nudists/naturists/clothes free-folk have our self perceptions but who can tell how others see us (cue Robert Burns - “ would that God the gifty gi’ us, to see ourselves “ etc)? Accepting the sub-culture principle helps to lump us all together without worrying too much about our variations.
There's a subculture for almost any interest you can come up with. Not all subcultures are weird and wacky but they tend to get the attention. Hobbies can form subcultures if the interest is strong enough. Religious denominations form subcultures. Political parties form subcultures. If people organize to pursue an interest and have have events or conventions, they are pretty much defined as a subculture regardless of the topic.
Subculture is just a fancy name for a special interest group within the larger culture that preferentially associates with other people who share the interest. I suspect most people are members of one or more subcultures. Within a subculture you can often find sub-subcultures. Like Trekkies are a subsection of science fiction fandom.
A subculture that is adopted by a sufficiently large sector of society ceases to be a subculture and is then mainstreamed.
Subcultures are all part of the great Venn diagram of human life in my view, we're in some parts of it and where they overlap with other sectors of this diagram. I'm inclined to think that those looking in at the nudist/naturist/clothes-free grouping(s) will likely think of those of us in these sectors as being more of a sub-culture than us naked folk looking out at wider society. Or is wider society a sub-culture, albeit a huge one?
I don't know if we have a single dominant culture anymore. Part of the reason the west feels like it is falling apart.
The model for the American culture used to be the melting pot. Imagine a Venn diagram without clear boundaries, just amorphous blobs where a culture is concentrated at the center but gradually blends into the surrounding soup. If you are into physics you could call them probability clouds.
Over time it has evolved into a salad bowl. This is a chunk of lettuce and that's a sliced carrot and the surrounding culture is just a thin and variable coat of dressing. That's what social media algorithms encourage. As subcultures become distinct entities rather than gradually blending into each other, conflict rises.. We focus too much on differences and not enough on commonalities.
You see the same problem in countries where there are distinct nationalities/religions/ethinicities that stay separate rather than also adopting a common overarching identity. The result is usually civil war.
I think of myself as being European as much as I am British, or English. Certain voters here have made this more difficult to live out in practice though. Its embarrassing being British elsewhere in the world at times, 'European' cloaks many more together and we merge better IMO. Like those amorphous blobs you mention, with no distinct borders. Little Englanders, as it was them far more than other British people with a possible exception for some Northern Irish folk, took us backwards and now we're increasingly isolated.
Nudists have other interests - literature, films, walking, knitting, blogging.......I think that helps most of us blend into the general social salad fairly well when we have to be clothed. I see differences with some of the aforementioned Little Englanders, but we also have commonalities, some of them are nudists for a start. I'm not sure that we need be too concerned about the fractionalisation leading to conflict, provided we stay aware of those possibilities and can avoid masses following the leaders of division.
Funny! I've never regarded not wearing anything as a subculture! To be honest, every since early childhood I've never really carried the nudist / naturist label either. Being naked to my family is simply another optional dress code that makes sense when it's too hot or uncomfortable for clothes - or if I'm simply too lazy to put any clothes on!
People have a right to be naked or clothed. Nudism should be considered as a lifestyle choice. There are groups and communities where people of all ages who live the nudist lifestyle it shouldn't be a subculture.
I guess we are all placed in subcategories. But, as I see it, since we naked people don’t really fit anywhere, as in, we, as a group, are not legally recognized, we are outliers. We exist outside of society mores. To be sure, there are many more groups that don’t fit. That’s fine with me.
Not sure what defines a sub-culture, but I'm increasingly inclined to consider naturism a creed. Colins dictionary defines a creed as: A creed is a set of beliefs, principles, or opinions that strongly influence the way people live or work. That pretty well sums it up for me. Since people can't freely socialize in public nude we are definitely outliers, but naturism is a philosophy people in this forum believe in. Furthermore, a creed is constitutionally protected. Taking this position may force open the door to wider acceptance, and access to beaches and parks that are much more accessible than now.
"We simply take off our clothes more often than most, I suppose, and sometimes we socialize with others"
Maybe my attitude or viewpoint is slightly different. I would suggest- We simply don't wear clothes as often as most. To me it is not about removing clothes for comfort, but putting them on for the benefit of others.
Enjoy your commentary
Good point, drawing a distinction between subcultures defined by costumes and one by defined by nakedness. As an environmentalist, I see discomfort with nudity as alienation from the nearest patch of nature.
Not "subculture"; *counterculture*. We stand against the prevailing culture as much as anarchists and Sixties hippies do and did.
a nice brief review of the current naturism issues...
Naturism/Nudism Should Not Be Regarded As A Subculture In The The Twenty-First Century after all we are All Born Naked and indeed some of us also had the Good Fortune to be Raised As Such when the weather was appropriate. Coincidently I don't know about New Zealand Or Anywhere Else In The Southern Hemisphere but so far spring has been good in Australia.
Thanks for the love for Planet Nude! I’ve been a fan and follower of The Naturism Community since the start.
I've always thought of it as more counter-culture than a subculture. But I guess, hey, however you want to label it. Or not label it. Just take your clothes off... it's all good :)
yes