Social media has been incredibly destructive to human values in general. Aside from the terrible effects on young people's social development, it encourages us to form up into political bubbles where we mutually reinforce our prejudices and never have to concede the humanity of those we disagree with or compromise for the greater good.
The political pendulum swings. Over the last few decades, each time it swung, it returned to a point to the left of where it started. Political change can happen quickly while social change takes place at a glacial pace. That creates a disconnect. Disconnects create conflict.
There is a large population that doesn't want ANY social change. They want it the way it was back in "the good old days." I think the social conservatives realized they were about to lose the whole show to the progressives and an otherwise nonparticipating segment of the population suddenly participated with a vengeance. That makes this particular swing of the pendulum especially nasty.
All those MAGA voters were always out there. They had just not participated. They hadn't had a winning voice that tried to speak to them since Ronald Reagan. But even he was a compromise and their hearts remained truly right wing populist. They voted for Wallace. They voted for Perot. Trump pulled them back to the GOP.
The more rapid the pace of change the more violent the return swing. Permanent change is glacial. I think neither progressives nor the MAGA conservatives realize this.
People will eventually get disgusted with the political right and the pendulum will swing left. It never returns to the same spot because the world is changed by forces other than politics. We can't return to the 50s or the 60s or the 80s or even the 2010s because that world is gone. The terrain over which the pendulum swings has itself moved. We'll swing back somewhere different & unpredictable..
Those of us who can remember the start of the internet can remember how any search produced a list of porn sites. The porn sites were the first off the line and the quickest to understand search engines, especially in those early, unsophisticated days. To be catalogued by the search engines you added the keywords which would define your site - so the porn sites simply added every word they could think of in their keyword lists.
Thus if you looked for cars, groceries, flower pots or new TVs, somewhere on the search results would be porn sites. So I’d have been surprised if your naturism feed hadn’t delivered the porn sites, Jillian. Sad to say 😢
Just a thought that linking any kind of sexuality based material just increases all of of the junk coming down on all of us. There should be NO sexuality base on nudist and naturist. The two have nothing to do with each other. I respect your sexuality and it has a place but it has nothing to do with the topic. The more a lot of people hear about sexuality in these places the less support it will get and the people you refer to as conservative will use it to their advantage.
I have a family friend and met other people who work in tech, a few of whom work at Meta (Facebook). The majority of them are good people; however, they are quite ignorant when it comes to nudity. I had this talk with my family friend (he is acutely married to a good friend of mine, who does work in Meta), and he was quite baffled how nudity could be non-sexual. I think a lot of this is due to the people who work in tech were raised in a sheltered, in upper-middle class, America-suburbia . And they never ventured out of that comfort zone. This friend told me when I told him how common FKK is in parts of Europe and how up until recently, and still in some areas, it is common to see kids under eight nudes on a beach, he responded, "yea, I heard to Europe is more relaxed on nudity, but I didn't think it was like 'that'" I think the tech companies have a problem of being America-centric and need to hire out to elsewhere, bring people in from other parts of the world and adapt to their cultures on their platforms.
Now, overall, do I think social media is hurting naturism? Yes and no. I think it is hurting it the same way the internet is hurting physical media. However, what it is doing is making a platform for those who are interested. I am seeing more and more ads for resorts and campgrounds on Facebook, along with podcasts and blogs. Are some swingers or explosives? Yes. But some are also educational. I found out a lot about naturism by googling about 15 years ago. At first, I found those exploitive sites from Ukraine and Russia that only had photos, but then further down, I found the Naturist Living Show podcast. I learned a lot from the podcast; now there are even more.
Those 'other' sites and emails the writer mentioned are no different than Germany's Jung und Frei (Young and Free) magazine of the 1980s and 90s. Naturists and nudists have always been exploited.
As for what is going on in Germany now with the societies, while it is true that fewer people are going to the beaches and FKK parks because of the fear of cell phone cameras, in Europe, there has been an increase of young people and families holidaying at Naturist campgrounds. One reason is that they feel safer at a location with a staff of security guards than out in the open.
I have also done some research for the University on the topic of naturist tourism in Europe, which shows younger people would rather holiday for one or two weeks a year at a naturist location than become members of a society or federation. This is mostly because of time and money. I, too, would rather be at a private location over a public beach.
This is not to say that there are not still families and young people who go to public beaches. I was in Wien last summer and went to one of the public FKK beaches, and while the demographic did swing older, I saw many people in their 30s there, too, and families with young kids up to teens. I also told you when I was there that this is one of the better beaches as it does not attract the "creeps"; being close to some water slides and restaurants probably helps.
Even the local Naturist resort near me in the States has seen a rise in young people and families joining. Ironically, they like coming because it gives them an excuse to put the phone down and connect authentically.
I do think naturism is becoming like vinyl. Would you convert anyone who is not already interested in naturism, liking getting someone to buy a physical record? No. It will never be like it was in the "hay day," but there would still be niche groups for people who enjoy it, and they would communicate online about where to go if they want to take part in the activity. Tripadvosr, a social media site, is great for this.
Social media has been incredibly destructive to human values in general. Aside from the terrible effects on young people's social development, it encourages us to form up into political bubbles where we mutually reinforce our prejudices and never have to concede the humanity of those we disagree with or compromise for the greater good.
The political pendulum swings. Over the last few decades, each time it swung, it returned to a point to the left of where it started. Political change can happen quickly while social change takes place at a glacial pace. That creates a disconnect. Disconnects create conflict.
There is a large population that doesn't want ANY social change. They want it the way it was back in "the good old days." I think the social conservatives realized they were about to lose the whole show to the progressives and an otherwise nonparticipating segment of the population suddenly participated with a vengeance. That makes this particular swing of the pendulum especially nasty.
All those MAGA voters were always out there. They had just not participated. They hadn't had a winning voice that tried to speak to them since Ronald Reagan. But even he was a compromise and their hearts remained truly right wing populist. They voted for Wallace. They voted for Perot. Trump pulled them back to the GOP.
The more rapid the pace of change the more violent the return swing. Permanent change is glacial. I think neither progressives nor the MAGA conservatives realize this.
People will eventually get disgusted with the political right and the pendulum will swing left. It never returns to the same spot because the world is changed by forces other than politics. We can't return to the 50s or the 60s or the 80s or even the 2010s because that world is gone. The terrain over which the pendulum swings has itself moved. We'll swing back somewhere different & unpredictable..
Those of us who can remember the start of the internet can remember how any search produced a list of porn sites. The porn sites were the first off the line and the quickest to understand search engines, especially in those early, unsophisticated days. To be catalogued by the search engines you added the keywords which would define your site - so the porn sites simply added every word they could think of in their keyword lists.
Thus if you looked for cars, groceries, flower pots or new TVs, somewhere on the search results would be porn sites. So I’d have been surprised if your naturism feed hadn’t delivered the porn sites, Jillian. Sad to say 😢
You're right. It is kind of odd that they only just started turning up in my feeds now, after all this time.
Google has lately been making a thing out of their adding AI to everything - I think we can blame the computer this time
Just a thought that linking any kind of sexuality based material just increases all of of the junk coming down on all of us. There should be NO sexuality base on nudist and naturist. The two have nothing to do with each other. I respect your sexuality and it has a place but it has nothing to do with the topic. The more a lot of people hear about sexuality in these places the less support it will get and the people you refer to as conservative will use it to their advantage.
Wishing you a Happy Canada Day.. Nicely opened July Open Forum.. All your four recommended reads are very good..
You wrote a VIP. Very Interesting Post :)
I have a family friend and met other people who work in tech, a few of whom work at Meta (Facebook). The majority of them are good people; however, they are quite ignorant when it comes to nudity. I had this talk with my family friend (he is acutely married to a good friend of mine, who does work in Meta), and he was quite baffled how nudity could be non-sexual. I think a lot of this is due to the people who work in tech were raised in a sheltered, in upper-middle class, America-suburbia . And they never ventured out of that comfort zone. This friend told me when I told him how common FKK is in parts of Europe and how up until recently, and still in some areas, it is common to see kids under eight nudes on a beach, he responded, "yea, I heard to Europe is more relaxed on nudity, but I didn't think it was like 'that'" I think the tech companies have a problem of being America-centric and need to hire out to elsewhere, bring people in from other parts of the world and adapt to their cultures on their platforms.
Now, overall, do I think social media is hurting naturism? Yes and no. I think it is hurting it the same way the internet is hurting physical media. However, what it is doing is making a platform for those who are interested. I am seeing more and more ads for resorts and campgrounds on Facebook, along with podcasts and blogs. Are some swingers or explosives? Yes. But some are also educational. I found out a lot about naturism by googling about 15 years ago. At first, I found those exploitive sites from Ukraine and Russia that only had photos, but then further down, I found the Naturist Living Show podcast. I learned a lot from the podcast; now there are even more.
Those 'other' sites and emails the writer mentioned are no different than Germany's Jung und Frei (Young and Free) magazine of the 1980s and 90s. Naturists and nudists have always been exploited.
As for what is going on in Germany now with the societies, while it is true that fewer people are going to the beaches and FKK parks because of the fear of cell phone cameras, in Europe, there has been an increase of young people and families holidaying at Naturist campgrounds. One reason is that they feel safer at a location with a staff of security guards than out in the open.
I have also done some research for the University on the topic of naturist tourism in Europe, which shows younger people would rather holiday for one or two weeks a year at a naturist location than become members of a society or federation. This is mostly because of time and money. I, too, would rather be at a private location over a public beach.
This is not to say that there are not still families and young people who go to public beaches. I was in Wien last summer and went to one of the public FKK beaches, and while the demographic did swing older, I saw many people in their 30s there, too, and families with young kids up to teens. I also told you when I was there that this is one of the better beaches as it does not attract the "creeps"; being close to some water slides and restaurants probably helps.
Even the local Naturist resort near me in the States has seen a rise in young people and families joining. Ironically, they like coming because it gives them an excuse to put the phone down and connect authentically.
I do think naturism is becoming like vinyl. Would you convert anyone who is not already interested in naturism, liking getting someone to buy a physical record? No. It will never be like it was in the "hay day," but there would still be niche groups for people who enjoy it, and they would communicate online about where to go if they want to take part in the activity. Tripadvosr, a social media site, is great for this.